Who has reserved and why?

Cactus

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Dec 29, 2019
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23
I hadn't heard that Rivian was partnering with Ford for service. Do you have a link to the article? I did know that Ford provided a big chunk of financing, however.
I completely agree. I do NOT want to be the first Rivian owner needing repair at a Ford dealership-or any non-Rivian dealership for that matter. We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and when I take it in for service, the dealership makes me feel like I am inconveniencing them. I can't imagine what it would be like if I needed service for a vehicle they didn't sell.

A charging network is really the secret sauce for EVs. Imagine if there were no gas stations!
Ignoring what Tesla has done with their charging network and "hoping for the best" worries me. Hope doesn't build charging stations.

Does anyone know the best source of information for all fast charging stations that would work for Rivian?

This Electrify America map looks pretty pathetic:
Locate a charger | Electrify America
compared to Tesla's supercharger map:
supercharge.info
It's tragic that one company (Tesla) has done a better job of building out a charging network than Electrify America backed by $2B from VW and other investors- but I can't find who those investors are...
 

Cosmacelf

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San Diego, CA
I hadn't heard that Rivian was partnering with Ford for service. Do you have a link to the article? I did know that Ford provided a big chunk of financing, however.
I completely agree. I do NOT want to be the first Rivian owner needing repair at a Ford dealership-or any non-Rivian dealership for that matter. We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and when I take it in for service, the dealership makes me feel like I am inconveniencing them. I can't imagine what it would be like if I needed service for a vehicle they didn't sell.

A charging network is really the secret sauce for EVs. Imagine if there were no gas stations!
Ignoring what Tesla has done with their charging network and "hoping for the best" worries me. Hope doesn't build charging stations.

Does anyone know the best source of information for all fast charging stations that would work for Rivian?

This Electrify America map looks pretty pathetic:
Locate a charger | Electrify America
compared to Tesla's supercharger map:
supercharge.info
It's tragic that one company (Tesla) has done a better job of building out a charging network than Electrify America backed by $2B from VW and other investors- but I can't find who those investors are...
So I wasn’t able to find a reference definitively stating that RIvian will be using Ford dealerships, just rumors. Given that RIvian has made no moves to date to build service centers, I would say it is a safe bet.

Use PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You to find high speed charging. Just use the CCS filter for RIvian.
 

EyeOnRivian

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Jun 4, 2019
Messages
30
Location
Chicagoland area
I hadn't heard that Rivian was partnering with Ford for service. Do you have a link to the article? I did know that Ford provided a big chunk of financing, however.
I completely agree. I do NOT want to be the first Rivian owner needing repair at a Ford dealership-or any non-Rivian dealership for that matter. We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and when I take it in for service, the dealership makes me feel like I am inconveniencing them. I can't imagine what it would be like if I needed service for a vehicle they didn't sell.

A charging network is really the secret sauce for EVs. Imagine if there were no gas stations!
Ignoring what Tesla has done with their charging network and "hoping for the best" worries me. Hope doesn't build charging stations.

Does anyone know the best source of information for all fast charging stations that would work for Rivian?

This Electrify America map looks pretty pathetic:
Locate a charger | Electrify America
compared to Tesla's supercharger map:
supercharge.info
It's tragic that one company (Tesla) has done a better job of building out a charging network than Electrify America backed by $2B from VW and other investors- but I can't find who those investors are...
Even though Rivian has said they will not have dealerships they have NOT announced the details of service centers, despite what others have speculated. Charles Sanderson, Rivian's chief engineer, has said if there is not a service center near you, they will provide white glove like service. If they are unable to diagnosis and fix the problem remotely, they will send a tech to you (similar to Tesla Ranger mobile service). If the tech is unable to fix your EV they will flatbed it to a service center and leave you with a loaner. But nothing has been officially documented yet on how this will all work. RJ Scaringe sent out a New Year's email today to pre-order holders basically saying they will be announcing this year how servicing, among many other unknowns, will be provided/handled.

Rivian has said multiple times they plan on installing charging stations at off the beaten path locations like in/near national parks while possibly partnering with other networks. Even though I haven't heard anything to the contrary recently it has been quiet on this front though that's nothing unusual for Rivian. I suspect we will be hearing something in the next few months.

I recommend checking out A Better Route Planner as they have both Rivian models you can select, albeit Alpha status. They even have each of the 3 battery pack options to pick from. So a total of 6 Rivian EV configurations in their database.
 
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Cactus

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Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
23
Thanks. I just planned a route from Phx to Dallas in a Rivian 135. I like the info bubbles that provide location, ccs charging details, charging time and cost. About the cost... charging seems much too expensive!
Distance is 1095 miles. Total charging time is 4hrs 5mins. Total travel time is 19 hrs 57mins. Better Route Planner says total cost for charging is $224. Wow!!!
Taking the same trip in my bmw 4 series that averages ~30mpg on the highway would cost only $116 (at $3.20/gal). [Yes, I know there’s an environmental cost]
Granted I am “spoiled” because my 2014 Model S has free supercharging, but electrons cost about one-fifth to one-tenth the cost of gasoline.
This trip should not cost twice what gas costs.

Hopefully I calculated wrong...?
 

Cosmacelf

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San Diego, CA
My rule of thumb is that home charging, when using cheap midnight rates, costs about 1/3 cost of gasoline. That’s comparing comparable cars. Ie a Tesla Model S versus a 20 mpg high performance car. Oh, and that’s CA rates, which are higher than most everywhere else.

anyways, it doesn’t surprise me that EA rates are high...
 

Cactus

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Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
23
Well, it certainly doesn’t foster the adoption of EVs if it costs twice as much to “fuel” them, plus a charging time penalty compared to petrol.
Since the cost of electrons should be less than half the cost of gasoline, somebody is taking advantage.
 

EyeOnRivian

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Jun 4, 2019
Messages
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Location
Chicagoland area
Well, it certainly doesn’t foster the adoption of EVs if it costs twice as much to “fuel” them, plus a charging time penalty compared to petrol.
Since the cost of electrons should be less than half the cost of gasoline, somebody is taking advantage.
Yea, and that "somebody" is Volkswagen. Like @Cosmacelf I'm not surprised either. Volkswagen created Electrify America with $2 billion in funding as part of its emissions scam (aka diesel-gate) settlement with the U.S. and California. Now whether it was part of the settlement or an oversight to add some limits on what EA could charge, I'm not sure, but either way Volkswagen, ala EA, found a way to not only recoup that $2 billion (via charging station fees) but probably will end up being a profitable endeavor for them. Basically Volkswagen will have the last laugh at US EV driver's expense.

So will it deter the adoption of EVs, possibly. Am I disappointed by the high EA rates, absolutely. However, I tend to look at this way (for now). I don't have to use the EA network. There are about a dozen or so others, granted not as big as EA at the moment (excluding Tesla of course), but they're growing everyday. Next, and I'm sure you've read/heard this a hundred times, unless you do a lot of traveling by car or have no access to at home or work charging (e.g. apartment/condo), a high majority of your charging will be at home and/or work. For me, 95+% of it will be at home, so I'm not going to sweat the EV charging costs on a couple or so annual road trips. Finally, even though nothing official has been announced by Rivian, many have suggested (and I would agree) that Rivian will be offering some type of charging subsidy with one or more charging networks. E.g. first x kW hours charged or period of time of EV ownership will be free or reduced charging rates. I've read and heard more than one Rivian rep state they will be offering "something" with regards to a charging perk with ownership. Who knows, it might only be for early adopters, but then how many is that? We will just have to wait and see what Rivian announces.

My bigger concern, say, when I'm on that road trip, is the reliability of the charging station and will there be enough charging ports to support the growing number of EVs on the road. There seems to be a growing number of reports of EV drivers that arrive at charging stations just to find them either out of order or they had to wait for a port to open up.
 

Cactus

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Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
23
Thanks EOR. I agree with your view, but someone in the press should publicize this additional VW screwjob. Geez.
Using the example above, traveling from Phx to Dallas in an EV should cost less than $65 using a generous $0.14 per kwh.
Instead of Rivian providing a subsidy for owners, they should expose the new VW-EA scam. Why? We might assume that intelligent people buy EVs and will do the math. [Yes, the math makes sense when you charge at home 90% of the time] Rivian is selling Sports Adventure Vehicles. Adventure in this case includes traveling in an EV. Rivian wants their EV experience to be great. Paying more for fuel (electrons) than one would pay for petrol on the same traveling adventure might cheapen (pun-intended) the adventure experience, knowing that VW (diesel-gate) is still profiting at EV owners' expense.
 

Cosmacelf

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San Diego, CA
I doubt that EA is making any money right now. AFAIK, no charging network makes money. This is partly due to high demand charges that utilities charge, partly to the huge expense that these 250kW chargers cost, and partly due to maintenance. You can’t look at $/kWh and expect the rates to be the same as your nighttime rates at home. It will never be that low unless it is being subsidized.
 

Cosmacelf

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San Diego, CA
Using the example above, traveling from Phx to Dallas in an EV should cost less than $65 using a generous $0.14 per kwh.
FYI, Tesla typically charges its customers $0.28/kWh. And even at that, they are probably still subsidizing their Supercharger network.
 
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