Is the CCS charging network good enough?

Cosmacelf

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Since I own a Tesla, I haven't been paying much attention to the CCS charging network for high speed, long distance travel. So I built this overlay image from Plugshare data showing CCS chargers in brown with Tesla Superchargers in red for southern California.

SCvsCCS.jpg

Click on the thumbnail for high res. While I realize CCS stations don't typically (yet) have as many plugs as a Supercharger, they also don't have nearly as many customers as Tesla has. And the CCS network is getting a big boost from Electrify America. At any rate, coverage looks as good as the Tesla Supercharger network. They both have holes in wilderness areas like Anza Borrego (hint, hint, Rivian) and hopefully Rivian will build chargers in these areas like they said they will.
 

lookmtb

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I'm really hopeful they will get charging stations in state parks and such. Currently in Ohio the CCS standard is fairly uncommon and that makes the truck a little more difficult to justify (Though I think Electrify America will change that). I'd really like to know more about what would be involved in sharing tesla's supercharger network and why nobody has taken them up on that.
 

theredviper

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I own a Tesla Model 3, and without any adapter for L3 DCFC, I've also been eyeballing the infrastructure only on occasion. It seems everything near me (West Coast of Canada) is getting both Chademo and CCS now. Only a few older units are Chademo only. I don't think anything is CCS only except at some car dealerships.
 

Cougs

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I hope that RIVIAN will have charging stations available in the vicinity of National parks like Yosemite, Zion, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc....
 

Cosmacelf

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I hope that RIVIAN will have charging stations available in the vicinity of National parks like Yosemite, Zion, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc....
Me too. That’s what they are promising, but we will see.

I just did a ski trip from San Diego to Big Bear Lake. Big bear has NO charging infrastructure, and it is at the top of a 7,000’ climb, in cold weather. My 90 kWh Tesla Model X barely made it there, and once there I almost ran out of power since I went to dinner and forgot how much a Tesla drains a battery just sitting in cold weather. I got back to my rented condo with 2% charge remaining. Luckily my condo had a garage with a 120V/20A plug so I was able to charge to 27% overnight, and then used a friend’s 240V/40A charge plug in his house to charge up enough to get back.

It’s pretty sad that, even today, in California, a local ski hill has no charging infrastructure.
 

RC1

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I thought I saw this question already answered but cannot find it at this time. What is the Tesla supercharger charging compared to the maximum rate Rivian is claiming for their vehicles on CCS network? I know Electrify America is claiming CCS can go as high as 350 kWh but I believe Rivian stayed it will only charge at max of 160 kWh.
 

Cosmacelf

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I thought I saw this question already answered but cannot find it at this time. What is the Tesla supercharger charging compared to the maximum rate Rivian is claiming for their vehicles on CCS network? I know Electrify America is claiming CCS can go as high as 350 kWh but I believe Rivian stayed it will only charge at max of 160 kWh.
Most Tesla Superchargers currently max out at 120kW, but most of the newer ones being built in urban centers are 72 kW versions.

Note that you only get 120kW if your battery is almost empty, and then it doesn’t stay at 120kW very long. There is a ramp down curve. And the 120 kW stations are paired in that two cars share 140 KW total power. So you will rarely get 120 kW at a busy site. The net result is that people find that charging at a 72 kW Supercharger isn’t that much slower than the more powerful ones.
 

RC1

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Thank you very much. Appreciate your expertise and information. Sounds like it will be equivalent or faster depending on battery level than I have with my Model S.

With that being said, I am ready to take delivery of my R1S.
 

Cosmacelf

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Oh, but Tesla is rumored to be working on V3 of the Supercharging network and we are expecting to see higher charge rates. It should come out in the next 3-4 months.
 

RC1

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Don’t confuse me. I finally convinced myself to go all in on Rivian.

Will be nice if that happens for the next 18-24 months while I wait.
 

Cosmacelf

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The reality is that even a 50kW Charger is pretty fast and useful. Anything above 80 kW or so falls into the “nice to have” category, but it isn’t essential. But if you need that large SUV or truck, then Rivian will be the only game in town for a while I suspect.
 

theredviper

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The reality is that even a 50kW Charger is pretty fast and useful. Anything above 80 kW or so falls into the “nice to have” category, but it isn’t essential. But if you need that large SUV or truck, then Rivian will be the only game in town for a while I suspect.
I fully agree (which is why I'm hankering for a Chademo adapter for my Model 3). The one thing that is annoying about the otherwise fantastic Supercharger network, is the 120 vs 72, and the fact that 120 is a shared in pairs. I understand all of the nuance, but to a new user or average person it seems confusing, and it's unnecessary. I hope V3 helps to clear this up somehow.
 

azjohn

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I think it depends on battery size. if you have a 50 KW battery I would agree, if you have a 100+KW not so and as battery sizes are getting larger with the present battery chemistry it will be a bigger issue. When solid state battery becomes a norm it will be a different story. when you think about it 50 KW isn't that much more than you have at a level 2 home charger and with that you have all night to charge
 

theredviper

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With today's crop of 60-100kWh batteries, 50kW is more than reasonable when stopping for a 60 min meal on a road trip.

I don't know how you are comparing that to a 6-9kWh L2 home charger...

Remember, 120kW+ superchargers don't maintain that speed for long.
 

Rob Stark

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50 kw is much less than reasonable, particularly when you rarely get sustained 50 kw at a CCS station.

How often are 60 minute meals convenient when charging? How many times per day can you stop for 60 min meals?

Fortunately, by Q4 2020 there should be significant numbers of 100-350 kW CCS stations.
 

Cosmacelf

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It all depends on your particular use case. I’ve used 50 kW Chademo stations where all I’ve needed was a top up. A 25 minute meal and rest break and I was good to go. However if I was doing a 500 mile trip, then, yeah, 50 kW wouldn’t be great.
 

theredviper

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Yes, I'm not saying 50kW is acceptable for a Rivian product's highest charging speed, I'm saying it's reasonable as an option for highway charging when you're stopped for a break anyway. Not every charge is 0-100%.
 

ajdelange

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Having looked on Plugshare at some stations I would potentially use on our east coast seasonal north/south migrations I'm more concerned about availability than charge rate. Many of them are, according to the check-in reports, simply not on line when users arrive.
 

Cosmacelf

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Having looked on Plugshare at some stations I would potentially use on our east coast seasonal north/south migrations I'm more concerned about availability than charge rate. Many of them are, according to the check-in reports, simply not on line when users arrive.
Yeah I would be worried about that too. Something to keep an eye on closer to production date.
 
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